Atkins Labcast
Hosted by Kate and Paul Atkins, the third generation owners of the oldest photo lab in Australia. A podcast about living with and loving photography. From philosophy to technicalities, for amateurs, artists and professionals, we talk about it all.
Atkins Labcast
Atkins Labcast Episode 44 - Morgane Cazaubon interview
This week Paul chats with Morgane of Petite Visuals. Morgane is a Fashion/Documentary/Wedding photographer who has a keen interest in art direction.
Recently Morgane has been looking closely at her process in preparation for a series of presentations. At any one time she can be seen with four camera’s being operated almost simultaneously. She delivers highly personalised services to her clients, this is a a real story teller talking about their process.
Enjoy!
Morgane’s wedding related work
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/petite_visuals/
Website: https://www.petitevisuals.com.au
Commercial / fashion work
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/petite_visuals_studio/
Website: https://www.petitevisuals.studio
G'day listeners, welcome to the Atkins Labcast. In this episode, I interview Morgan Cazabon. Morgan's based in Gippsland, which is southeast of Melbourne in Victoria. It's a semi-rural area. Morgan has the most fabulous accent, so you'll probably work out that she's not originally from Australia. She's from Brittany, which is on the coast of France. And Morgan has got a really great story about She has got a lot of aspects to her professional career that she sort of pulls together in this interview. She has a lot of techniques, a lot of systems. She's thought about what she does a lot. She's thought about creativity a lot. So anytime people are analyzing creativity, I think, look, it's really worth listening to. So sit back, enjoy, and thank you for listening.
UNKNOWN:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:G'day listeners, I'm on the call today with Morgan Cazabon from the Gippsland region of Victoria. Morgan's a, well, I like to think she's an old friend but she's far from old and we've only known each other for a few years at any rate. We met at one of the workshops that have been run in recent years and you're a sort of an all-rounder photographer but you're sort of heading in the fashion world, you're working towards being a you know, recording fashion work. But as part of that, you know, you've started in the wedding world and I think wedding and fashion work really well together. Tell us a little bit about the sort of work you're doing right now and what makes you tick, Morgan.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. That's a loaded question, Paul. Sorry. It's a strong one. What makes me tick? Yeah, well, I started doing marketing work well, project management into a fashion store back in France. And I used to work into the web and communications part of it, creating the campaigns, the lifestyle shoots, like overseeing everything, doing the art direction. And then when I arrived to Australia, I wanted to get into photography a bit more. And then I started with small businesses doing commercial shoots and then I did weddings and now I kind of apply what I've learned and what I've done, my experience into the fashion world into weddings. So yeah, maybe I like applying the fashion techniques, I guess, to photography, to weddings, but just purely for lighting and composition. The rest is very much so documentary. So it's a bit of a mix.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. So I think like fashion is interesting because I would think any bride wanting a wedding and wedding a wedding that's visually interesting and something recorded, any bride in that situation would be following the world of fashion and would be interested in the world of fashion. It would be unusual. if they weren't. So it's a very good combination, isn't it? And perhaps that's why your work is so strong and people are interested in you because it's kind of fashion first, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if it's fashion first, but I feel like fashion, it has a way to elevate photography or enhance the look of people. As in like, it's the same as when someone puts makeup on. It's not to hide yourself. It's to enhance your beauty or to enhance what you already look like in a way that is not fake either. So the fashion style of photography applied to wedding is basically a way to make those people feel special and enhances their natural selves in fashion. Like with techniques that are very, very true to fashion. So it would be maybe strobe photography, like strobe lighting, the composition maybe on a very simple wall. Then you can really focus on the actual people. You can focus on the product. You can focus on the outfits. You can focus on the look they have for each other instead of being in a busy environment within all the guests and stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, your work has a real clarity to it and I think it's– there's a lot of action and there's a lot of movement and, you know, you can see it's really– like it is fashion. You know, from an outsider who sees a lot of wedding photography, I see a lot of, you know, that documentary style. But it's the documentary style that you see associated with– you know, shoots around brand labels and that sort of thing and stuff that you see for campaigns. That's my, you know, outsider opinion of it. But you're also sort of veering off into the art direction world. You know, where is that? I know you've got a huge interest in cinema and you can see this sort of intersection happening. So where did the art direction come from? Was that from your previous life before that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I see what you mean now with the fashion thing. So yes, maybe it's all based, it's still going down under to the art direction side of things, really. So how do you apply that to your work and to weddings? So art direction basically is having a strong creative vision for a project. It's bringing in, or it's knowing how to bring in different elements creative elements into one project so that project might be weddings so when you when I go in and shoot a wedding I've got I've got to read the room right I have to know the couple what they like what what style they are the vibe of the wedding and then and then I apply another direction directive vision to it to render the story to the best I can and I think that My experience in fashion must have helped with that because then I can already see the kind of photos they will like, the kind of photos that's going to make them tick as well. So
SPEAKER_02:how do you balance the desire to control the situation with the I'm an observer? I mean, that's what reportage or documentary photography typically is. You sit back and you let it happen and unfold. But, you know, art director is– You know, they're control freaks normally. I don't think that's you. I'm not giving you that label, but tell me about that. How do you balance
SPEAKER_00:that? Yeah, well, it's a funny balance, I guess. It's a matter of you observe a scene, all right, because my wedding photography would be about 85% documentary and the rest is guided documentary. composition or guided posing. And within that 85%, it will be me moving around the couple to compose a certain shot. So if I've got cinema references or if I've got fashion references in my head, I'm like, oh, this would look really good as a wide shot angle with the guests on the side. And I know exactly what I want to do with that shot. So I will move around without interrupting anything. So this is how I keep documentary part of it, but also with a certain directive in my head. So I don't interrupt whatever's happening. So it's still documentary. It's still the moment, but I will move myself or I would change my lens. I will change the lighting technique. I will change all this, but that will just affect me, not the scene in, in the actual action of the scene. Yeah. So you must know the venues very
SPEAKER_02:well.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I don't. I don't. No, I hate scouting as well.
SPEAKER_01:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah, wow. So I don't scout. It's just really on the moment. I think this comes down to being good at problem solving as well, I think. So I don't like scouting a venue because if I go in on a day that's like very sunny at 4 p.m. and I see, oh, yeah, that wall's going to be great at 6 p.m. That wall is great. We're going to take some great photos there. Or that patch of grass has really nice lighting coming through the trees. That's going to be great. We're going to do this. And then I form a plan in my head. But on the day, on a wedding day, things happen. It never goes to the timeline. You might skip the portraits. You might do the portraits three hours later than you planned them on doing. And then if I have... Like if I already think about a shot that I want in my head and I can't get it, I'm going to get frustrated and frazzled and it's going to annoy me. So I'd rather go with no expectations, go with a blank canvas, and then find ideas on the day at that moment. So I guess this is why art direction is a good thing to have. So I did an art direction workshop earlier this week, especially for that. talk about that subject, about how to apply art direction within work and to apply it to your business. And that would apply to weddings as well. But the more I looked into it, the less I knew about art direction. The more I tried to define what art direction was, the less I actually knew about it, which was interesting. But what I gathered was that art direction is great. to have because it makes you be curious. You have to be curious about things. You have to go out and see different things and ingest things, different things. I don't know if that makes much sense. I'm trying to reformulate it. You sort of become a
SPEAKER_02:consumer of culture, don't you? Yes. And is that a critical part of that? And so, look, you do this workshop and, of course, whenever you do a workshop, it means you put a mirror up to yourself and you go, what in the hell am I talking about here? You know, I'm telling everyone to go and be an art director, but what does it mean? And, of course, then you refine what you think it is. And so your first step you felt was like, okay, because I know you consume culture, like you are voracious with movies and photography and photography I remember we were together at the Refocus Retreat a few weeks ago, and you bought not your library, but I gather a small chunk of it, boxes of books, art books on paintings and photography and things that have drawn you in. into the sort of work you're doing. So you're suggesting as an art director that that's absolutely critical, is it?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, that's right. Yeah, thank you for summarising everything that I was trying to say. Basically, I feel like you are what you eat. So if you ingest things, different things about different mediums, art, food, a song, cinema, a building, anything that... makes you open your mind to the world and then you'll bank up all these things, all these influences into your brain. So when you arrive to a place that could be weddings, it could be building a dress, it could be baking a cake for a wedding or for an event, then you can apply all these influences that you banked up in your brain and be like, oh, this situation reminds me of this painting by Van Gogh or whatever. And then you're like, oh, I remember how he used the light for this or the colors that he used. I like that. So I'm going to try to apply that into that situation. And I feel like this is what art direction is. It's basically creating a mood board in your brain with different things. Like you've got a whole, basically you've got Pinterest is your brain and you create those little things like mood boards for each situation that you're going to go into and this is what's going to create the edge or very it's going to be very personal that's why I feel like each photos that I take for couples like all the weddings are different because the couples are different and the photos I take are different because they're for the couple that I'm shooting for so All the couples that I shoot will have their own little mood board in my head of what their story means to me or what it reminds me. Or that reminds me of a movie by the Coen brothers, their love story. This reminds me of a painting that I've seen by Rembrandt. And then I'll put it all together like a mood board and then create that for them.
SPEAKER_02:How well do you know the subjects before shooting? the shoot? Is it something you spend enough time with them to feel like you get to know them or do you just roll with it or do you stalk them on social media or how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00:So sometimes I've never met them before. We have, when they book me, they have a questionnaire, like I said, a questionnaire about the wedding mostly, how many guests, what what vendors they already have booked. And usually this will give me an idea of what kind of style wedding they're going to have. So depending on, they say they're going to have, I don't know, a certain baker for the wedding cake or a certain venue. Like in Melbourne, if they're going to get married at the Altar Electric, I know already they're a bit fun. They're going to like colors and confettis and all this. If they're going to get married at Montsalva in Melbourne, that's going to be different. It's going to be a bit more of a gothic, grandiose castle vibes. So I kind of make an idea of what the couple is before, but not with many elements. And then once I'm there with them, when they get ready, you can really feel the room. You can... You don't realize how much you can learn about someone by just observing them. And I think that all comes down to that. I
SPEAKER_02:mean, that's a skill that you have. I think you have a very fast, responsive brain. You know, like if you were saying to a young wedding photographer or another wedding photographer who's struggling and wondering about their game, this sort of stuff is very, like all personal skills that you have, that's a very hard thing to impart to people. You know, it's the way your brain works.
SPEAKER_01:I guess so.
SPEAKER_02:It's fantastic. But I suppose anyone who's really good at what they do, it's often nothing that someone's told them to do. It's just something inherent in them that makes it
SPEAKER_00:possible. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Can you teach that? I think you can. I still think you can.
SPEAKER_02:I'm guessing you've got some sort of attention disorder or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but that's where ADHD comes in really handy.
SPEAKER_02:You're harnessing that skill, huh?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think so. But I only got– actually, it's funny you say that about ADHD. I only got diagnosed like six months ago. And everything made sense then. It all made sense.
SPEAKER_02:Did that feel better for you? Like were you worried about your– like were you getting a diagnosis because you were struggling with something or was it just, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, no, I was struggling with focusing with editing, with my work editing, with all the backlog that we've had from– lockdown and COVID, we had to fit in a whole, like three seasons in one. And then I had to sit down more than usual in front of the computer and I could not focus. I really couldn't. And I was like, there's something wrong with me. I cannot do this. And then I went to see my GP who said, oh, maybe, have you ever gotten an ADHD diagnosis? And I said, no, I don't have that. Because I was like, I've lived my life Like thinking that ADHD was very different than what it actually is. Like, you know, fidgety. Yeah, maybe like a little violent outburst because you get frustrated and things like that. This is not me. And I was like, that's my vision of what ADHD was. And it's actually not that at all. It comes out very differently with people a bit older and women especially. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still a bit in denial. I'm like, I don't have that, but I do. That's called very high.
SPEAKER_02:Look, I think for you it's a positive thing. I mean, I think for everybody it can be a very positive thing. It's one of the things that makes them special, but obviously with the sort of work you're doing where you're basically being dropped into a very, like that whole idea of out of the frying pan into the fire, You know, you're being dropped into a really wild situation and shooting like a wedding is fashioned with amateurs. So with all the, everyone wants to look like they're on the front of Vogue. They want to feel like they're on the front of Vogue, but they're just, they just don't know how to get there. And you're the only person that's doing it. So, and then of course you add the emotions of weddings on top of it and all that. Tell me at the end of the day, are you totally stripped and exhausted from a day shooting like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. You get the wet hangover. Like the wedding hangover. It's funny because you basically give it all. Like I work better on the stress, which is weird. I work better with adrenaline. So I don't take my medication for ADHD when I'm going to shoot weddings because that would make me too calm. Like it removes the anxiety. I'm anxious a lot during weddings, but this is my comfort zone, I think, because I've known this my whole life so I feel like I perform better under stress and I've chatted to a lot of other photographers and they're the same. They like this adrenaline burst that they have at weddings and it makes them focus better. If they're too calm then they get frazzled and they don't do as of work than they usually do which is very interesting and then at the end of the day when you come home like I've shot weddings two hours away from my home and sometimes I just drive home with no music total silence for two hours just to kind of reset like my brain is filled with Conversation still.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think that that limits how long you can be a wedding photographer for? I don't know how long you've been doing it. How long have you been shooting weddings?
SPEAKER_00:Seven years.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So are you feeling at any pressure like this is– I'm not going to be able to keep this up for another seven years? Or how do you feel? Because you're giving everything for this event.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I've reduced– the number of weddings that I do. I used to do sometimes three weddings per weekend, like Friday, Sunday, Sunday. Then I reduced it to two. And then now I just do one. One per weekend. So during the season, how
SPEAKER_02:many a year would you do?
SPEAKER_00:I'd be about, on average, I'd be about 17. So it's not many. Some photographers do 50. 50, and I don't know how they would do it. But physically as well, my back hurts. My legs. They must be phoning it
SPEAKER_02:in. I don't mean to say that they must be phoning it in, but they must have created a layer of separation where they're not as involved with what's going on. Yeah, I don't know how. And not trying to receive the room like you are. But you don't want to shoot it any other way. You just want to shoot weddings
SPEAKER_00:the way you shoot it. I just can't. I don't think
SPEAKER_02:I can.
SPEAKER_00:I would love to go in to a wedding where I've got my– timeline set up. I know exactly what shot I'm going to get. Like, for example, I need the dress hanging. I need the bride doing the buttons up. I need the details shot. And then once it's like a tick list, in the head and then you tick all that I don't have that I get sidetracked I'm like oh look at the light there shining on the bouquet I'm going to take that and I'm going to spend like three minutes on that and then totally forget the details shot but then it also you allow the spontaneity of the moment in it like I don't have a tick list the photos I've taken for couples they don't look like each other each gallery is very very different and this is where Sometimes some couples come to me and say, oh, we really like your work. We really like that image that you've taken. Can we please do that? And I'm like, I don't think so. We can't do that. I'm going to do something even better because I'm going to do something that's totally you. That's you at that moment. This is what happened. We're not going to recreate that shot in front of the pond with the I don't know, like the ducks coming in. I don't know. You'd really like that, but that wasn't you. That was that couple. So at the end of the day, it's a bit of a trust situation as well where the couples book you in and they know that you can deliver. They know you can do something, but if they have– already set their minds into the photos that they want to have. Like you were saying, they all want to be like celebrities for the day. Like they want to be the Vogue couple. They want to do this. And I can bring that to them to an extent. But if the context or if their personality don't allow me to do this, like it doesn't work. And also sometimes people think, oh, I really want this photo of me to, oh, I want me to look like that in a photo, but that's not them. And then they look back in their photos, like we'll say 40 years at that time. And they'd be like, this was not me. I don't recognize myself in this. And that would be the worst feeling. I really don't want people to feel like that when they look at their photos. I want them to recognize themselves. And you... Working in that industry for that long, like even your parents, like your family is in that for that long, you would have seen a lot of wedding photos of other people. So you know how important it is to have photos that 50 years down the track you give to your children or your family. This is what you pass along. This is the memories of that time of their life. And if it doesn't look like them, then to me it's just failed it's a failed thing yeah yeah fashion into it i really just apply the techniques of it and the art direction into it but i don't apply the because fashion you work with talents you work with actors right so you you can make them seem like anything Like, for that campaign for those shoes, this model has to look like she's enjoying the beach, even though she's terrified of the sand, for example. Like, you apply a vision to that model. They're acting, right? Whereas at the weddings, I want to strip off that. People are not acting. It's their day. It's them to the purest form, I guess. So, yeah, fashion to a certain extent. I guess.
SPEAKER_02:Do you find there's couples that you sometimes meet that you don't think you can photograph them because they're not going to be authentic or they're just looking for something else?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's how you learn, I guess, to look through. Like... If a person asks me, oh, I really want that photo, and I can see how uncomfortable that makes them, I'll still take the photo and say, okay, we've got it. That's all good. Now tell me more about this piece of jewelry you're wearing around your neck. What does it mean to you? And then they'll start telling you a story that's true to them, and then that's where you're going to capture something. So it's just a matter of, I don't know, of... Knowing how to talk to people, knowing how to strip back the image that they want to show to the world. That's where as well, it's really good. I feel like it's very important for wedding photographers to also step back of weddings and do maybe some documentary work, like journalist work. I've learned a lot by doing this with the magazines that I work with, doing journalism. Oh, so tell us
SPEAKER_02:about that. So you're doing some other local work, are you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just local work. It's a journal called Gippslandia. Big shout out. They're awesome. It's a non-profit.
SPEAKER_02:You keep sending me copies of it. It's a really cool paper. Yes,
SPEAKER_00:because I think you'd like it. Yeah, I love it. And they send me to those weird places. Like I don't know about, yeah, things I don't know about in advance. And they send me, oh, Morgan, can you go to that place there at the end of this road? It's a cul-de-sac. Go and have a look. It's the guy he does. He's a taxidermist. Go and have a look.
SPEAKER_02:You showed me these photographs. They're insane. So there's just dead animals everywhere. And you're like, he's a big, creepy looking guy. He showed me the photos. And how tall are you? And you're pretty, you're not like a big imposing person, are you?
SPEAKER_00:No, I'm very short. That's why it's good. I can creep around. Like I can hide and document things. I can hide in the bushes. Yeah. I'm one meter 51. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So, but when you go to this guy's place and he's a big creepy guy with lots of knives and dead things everywhere.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's the thing. You arrive to his place and he's got skulls on, on pikes and stuff like that. I'm like, oh my God, where, where am I? Am I going to, there's no, there's no signal. It's Yeah, it's going to be a Wolf Creek situation. I don't know. It's just, I arrived there and then here's this fella in front of his shed, has thousands and thousands of skulls and it stinks because it smells like leather, you know, like worked leather and hair and fur and whatever it is. And then he's got all these things hanging, eyeballs everywhere. And I'm like, oh, what is this? And then that's when I'm like, all right, okay, let's, that's where you kind of, the ADHD is good there because then you kind of get focused on something else. All right, let's, we've taken that in. Let's, let's do something else. Let's just think about something else. And you start talking and then the fella is absolutely lovely. He writes children books and he's got heaps and heaps of stories and he tells me more about how, like his process of actually doing the taxidermy because, well, I'm not, I'm not for killing animals for just, the joy of it and he tells me about it so we've got a conversation where we've got a bit of different opinions but I learn how to hear him and he hears my things and in this conversation and you learn about people and then you take portraits so I learned a little bit about him and then he learns about me and you kind of stay on the same level and then that's where yeah you can capture the real person behind like everything else. So I think it's a good exercise for wedding because you have to learn about the people very quickly. You have to learn about the family. You have to learn how to ask the right questions, when to intervene, when to not intervene, like let the moment go. And I think this is, when you were asking me about how would people, like, you know, observing, you said I was good at it. And can you learn it? Is it something that you can, is it innate or is it nurturing? And I feel like you can try to train yourself to do it. Like sit down at Flinders Train Station and sit down and look at people and try to figure it out. Oh, where is that person going? And create a story. And then look at this person. Oh, she's holding a child with her hands. Is this her kid or is it someone else's kid? What's happening there? And then just observe and have a look. Doing street photography. stopping people on the street to ask them, can I take a photo of you because I like your outfit? All this, all these exercises will help then when you do a wedding, make you feel more comfortable and make you quicker on your feet to figure it out, the stories and where to look, what to observe, what to take from it. But like Paul, I'm telling you this, I don't know if that's a secret. Like I... I don't know, but this is what I do. This is what I would do. Well, that's all that matters.
SPEAKER_02:That's why we're talking. I don't think anyone knows, you know, anyone. But look, hey, you've– so you're from Brittany. You're a Breton. So you've travelled a lot. You've seen a lot. Do you feel that that sort of life has bought– that's heightened these observation powers? You know, because, you know, you're a long way from home and– I think as an individual a long way from home, you know, you need to survive, you need to work out ways of surviving and all that kind of stuff. And I think that sort of switches some of those things on. You can't really afford to not listen to people and that sort of thing. So I'm sure that's all, you know, that's part of it, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Well, being left, like I left home very young when I was 14 and I had to, I guess, do it on my own so the survival thing that you just mentioned maybe that's that's one of the key for it because you don't have a choice you have to to talk to people you have to make your way in the world so the different cultures so then yeah you observe more like I'll be maybe more aware, more heightened. My level of attention will be more heightened when I arrive to a place I don't know because of that survival instinct that kicks in. You're observing straight away. You're like, is this a room full of men? Where are the exits? The toilets are there. You observe everything. Maybe that's an instinctive thing because maybe... Yeah, well, that's another thing. Maybe we can... talk about and implement into this. And I find that very interesting. The trauma side of things. I did mention this during the refocus retreat of how your own trauma can influence your work. Like how you can turn trauma, so something negative and something that can break you. How can you transform this into something positive? beneficial for your work and for your for your business and I find out that my own personal trauma actually helped me in my business and my work like it could be yeah that thing about survival and and observing you have to be heightened you have to know so you can read people very easily because you're like am I in danger here or is it safe space can I do I know you need to you You learn how to know the people very quickly and to form an opinion. And then that thing of art direction where you're curious about everything, that comes from as well the trauma in my own story where that's where cinema comes in. And my photography is very linked to cinema because I've got banked so many stories and photos and photographs screen grabs of movies in my head that then I apply that to weddings or photo shoots or anything like that. And that all comes directly from trauma, which is very interesting. It's very interesting how something so damaging that you can maybe find a way to use it to your benefit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, that's a huge skill and a huge– Like that's a big ask for anybody. Not everybody could, you know, like without going into detail, but not everybody could take something which clearly is a big effect on your life and actually turn it to something, you know, positive. It's amazing. It's kind of heroic in some ways. Is that something that you've had help with outside, like a therapy, or is it something that is just Morgan, she works this stuff out?
SPEAKER_00:I'm still working things out all the time. We all are. We all are. We don't know what we're doing. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody. That's why it's hard. Like I don't want to sound like it's something that's easy or that it's– I think maybe– I don't think it's just me. But I think the survival thing is like when you've experienced trauma, you survive something. And that survival instinct that kicked in will never leave you. It will always be there. So with a lot of different scenarios, like me traveling, for example, different cultures, different things, you learn to observe. You learn to survive in those environments. And it's beneficial in the end, I think. But ask me in... 10 years and see what happens.
SPEAKER_02:We will do that. So tell me about the other cultures that like particularly, you know, growing up in Brittany and also I'm sure you've photographed in France and have you been to weddings? Are the couples different? Are the expectations from a photographer? You know, I'm talking about specifically the industry. I remember a photographer talking about Italy and how beautiful like a photographer was an incredibly important person in Italy. There were different status, whereas in Australia it's, I don't know what's happened in Australia. It's certainly probably through the 80s and 90s and that where photographers kind of gave a bit of a bad reputation because of business practices and all that sort of. What's it like in France and other countries that you've worked?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I moved to Australia nine years ago. And I started wedding photography seven years ago. So I actually never shot a wedding in France, but I've attended weddings, a lot of them. And they're very different in the way they are as a timeline. Like the wedding ceremony will probably be in the morning at the mairie, which is the town hall, like the little council thing. And it will be in the morning. Then after that, you go around to the cafe, like to the pubs. And then after that, you meet to the venue for lunch. And then this will drag on until 5 a.m. You'll have dinner there. And then at 4 a.m., you've got the onion soup. This is why onion soup is served in France. It's for when you... are out and drinking and all this. That's when you drink onion soup. So at 4 a.m. you've got onion soup and then people go to bed. And you guys don't call it
SPEAKER_02:French onion soup, do you?
SPEAKER_00:No. You don't call it
SPEAKER_02:French because we
SPEAKER_00:call it French onion soup. Yeah, yeah. No, we don't call it French onion soup. We just call it onion soup.
SPEAKER_02:Because Chinese don't call Chinese food Chinese food. That is
SPEAKER_00:called food.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And, yeah, so that's different in that way. I'm like– How would I be if I had to shoot a wedding that's from 8 a.m. till 5 a.m.? Like, it's very different. So what
SPEAKER_02:happens? Like, did you see photographers around then?
SPEAKER_00:So back, yeah, when I was a guest at weddings, usually the photographers would be there after the ceremony. Or maybe if it's at the mairie, not the church, because church, you wouldn't be allowed to take too many photos. But if you're at the mairie, yeah. Yeah, Catholic. And then you, yeah, it would be after just the family photos, a bit of the reception cocktail thing. And then that'd be it. Like, and then, yeah. But I think that might be in those times now, like the more modern way of doing it, it's having the photographer more of the guest. Right. So you include your photographer into the activities and it's more and more documentary. But it's the same. here, I think, like back in the day, we'll say in 1960s, you'd have a photographer just for family photos, right? You wouldn't have a photographer that walks around and do documentary. It would just be like family, posed family photos. That's all. Well, I think that that was the way a bit more, but you look at the wedding photography scene in France now, it's very much like Australia now. It's just a bit longer days. I think he is about eight to 10 hours. And I think in France will be about 12 to 13 hours coverage just to capture everything. But that's the only thing that changes a little bit, I think. But I've got a few weddings coming up in France and Italy for 2024. So I can tell you after.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because you're going to be living in France next year, aren't you? You're taking a whole family and going to Brittany for the year, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. Yeah, because my kids are a bit too Australian at the moment. I want them to know the French, well, the Brittany culture. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And Brittany, like originally, Bretons are Celtic really, aren't they? They're not Gaulish French. They're Celtic. So it's a really interesting culture there. It's quite different. It's not Parisian.
SPEAKER_00:No. No, it's very much. We don't like Parisians.
SPEAKER_01:Why?
SPEAKER_00:Tell me. Well, they all come during the summer to Brittany and then they wreck the place and then come back home to Paris and then we're left with the wrecked coast, I guess. So do
SPEAKER_02:they believe they're the only French or something like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_02:Now we've dissed an entire
SPEAKER_00:district of France. But we've had, like, you know, I remember at school when I was growing up, we had those songs made up to... say bad things about Parisians and stuff. We had those little– how do you call it? The kids' songs that you sing at school. Yeah. We had those songs about Parisians.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's great. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:That's funny.
SPEAKER_02:So you'll travel next year and you're living there next year. You've got some weddings booked. What about fashion work? Are you trying to tackle anything like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'd like to get into the Paris Fashion Week. Maybe– like asking some of the public relations agencies. This is how I think I could get in, like having a pass, or just doing it at the outside. Streetwear and street photography out there would be really, really cool. And then I'm going to try to do some of the cinema festivals as well, like the Deauville Festival and the Festival de Cannes. So
SPEAKER_02:you've already got some contacts you mentioned when we were together last.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. You
SPEAKER_02:know, your kind of foot's almost in the door at Cannes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. That's going to happen. So it's going to be May next year. Going to assist a photographer who does the photography at Cannes before the junkets. So you've got all the team of a movie that comes in for interviews. And then before that, they have portraits and photos. And I'm going to be there and assisting him. in his photos
SPEAKER_02:oh that's exciting
SPEAKER_00:yeah that's very very exciting
SPEAKER_02:now one of the things that you mentioned and i i i know we haven't well sorry you haven't mentioned we talked about previously but um you're the way you work with multiple disciplines at once uh and from what i recall you at any one event you can be found with 2s digital not SLRs particularly, but mirrorless, one with a long lens, one with a wide, you can be found with a, like a Sony doing video on, you know, hanging up high on your, on your chest and then a film camera in your other hand. So you're sort of rocking four formats. Is that right? Have I got that right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. You got that right. Yeah. You got that right. Okay. So tell me how does a crazy
SPEAKER_02:person cope with all of that?
SPEAKER_00:Especially when you're so short like me, like everything's dangling on the floor. It's just, it's mayhem. It's chaos.
SPEAKER_02:You're like a spider or an octopus, huh?
SPEAKER_00:I'm like a donkey, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Donkey?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's like a mule. That's what I meant. A mule, you know, like when you have those bags on the side of the mule. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You don't have to sell it. I'm trying to think. There's got to be a more elegant term that you can describe because you, look, you don't, I've seen photographs. You don't look like a donkey. I've seen you standing at the workshop. You don't look like a mule. It's fine. You don't even look like a spider or some, you know, like fancy octopus.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like I'm very professional. But how do you do all that? And
SPEAKER_02:what's the story behind that? Why are you doing it that way? It sounds insane.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, it's also, to be honest, it was a bit insane starting because I do photos, but I also do video as well. So that's… What, full video coverage? Yes. So, well… Yes. That in itself is pretty insane when I think back, like when I'm thinking about it now. It's just that when I started to do photos, so I was just doing wedding photos and then I was like, oh, I could hear someone laughing in the background. It was like the old aunt was talking with a kid and they were laughing together and the kid was twirling its dress and it was really, really cute. I was like, oh, I need to capture this in video because photo– wasn't going to do it justice at that moment. So I swapped two videos with my camera. And then all the rest of the day, I kind of swapped between one and the other. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then I could make a little highlight video at the end of the day. So when the couple received the gallery, the photo gallery, I also included a little edit with heaps of different videos of the day, which was kind of like, you know, the old, well, It's probably your time, Paul, you know, when you used to have the Super 8
SPEAKER_02:camera. Go easy, Morg. I'm 53. But, yeah, I'll take on old. That's fine. I've got grey hair, grey beard, whatever.
SPEAKER_00:It's wise. I thought you were my friend. So when you had the Super 8 camera, you know, the little clips which, you know, you turn it on and then you have a picnic with your family and then the next image is Christmas. Two years later, and then you have the next image is something else. Well, that kind of looked like that, but for the wedding day. So you had the kid twirling with the dress, the aunt laughing, the uncle cheers with the glass of red wine. Then you had the kiss of the couple, couple holding hands and things like that, just mismatch of little snippet of the day. And I love that because then I could include audio as well. So I started doing that. And then Capo started to ask for a highlight video. So like four minutes, highlight videos. And I was like, okay. So I was doing it all by myself. I'm still doing it all by myself usually. So photos and videos. And then I include those little snippet videos in the gallery because it adds, to me, it complements the photos. It doesn't replace the photos because I still prioritize photos, but it complements it. It adds another, an extra layer of emotions, I feel.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_00:then, yeah, and film. Then I added that on top again. So as an analog film. So what
SPEAKER_02:are you shooting for that?
SPEAKER_00:I love my, I actually love the Polaroid camera. You know, it's actually the Fujifilm Instax, the wide one. I love that. And then I usually give that to guests as well. So I've got like, I usually take with me three packets. So it would be about 30. 30 Polaroids and then I take photos that I keep I would keep about 10 and then around like around the place I would just give them the photos and then they will remind like then they'll remember me I guess like but now at weddings a lot of couples have those little Polaroid cameras on the on the reception tables and I think it's fine like I think it's great I think it's very fun yeah and otherwise just have the normal like the Point and shoot with a roll of Kodak.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And you just would shoot a roll as far as the day goes, would you?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. If they choose to have the package on top of that, like I've got an analog film package, it will be three rolls. Okay. One black and white and one color.
SPEAKER_02:So normally your price would be inclusive of these things like the video and the…
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:and one roll of film, but they then add on, I want a film-focused coverage.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. I want a lot more film. If they ask me if we really like film, then I add more rolls and I take less photos on my digital cameras and I focus a lot more on film. And that's getting more and more popular, which is good for you, I think, for the lab. You must have seen an increase of rolls coming in.
SPEAKER_02:we have we have there's there's definitely been um we find that it it goes in oh it doesn't go in waves i think for different photographers there's a different response for it but the awareness out there in the in the world is it's a thing it's a beautiful thing it's a nostalgic thing uh it's very different the look and feel for how digital capture which is always not always but quite often so perfect and and and manicured uh film is so loose and i think I think people like looking at the world these days, they're like, oh, just, you know, just cut away some of this control and let's have a bit of fun and relax a bit and also do things that my parents did and get pictures that my parents did. I think that's perhaps where it's coming from. I'm not surprised at all. At any rate, it's a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_00:I think for me, the film, I love the constraint as in there's not many options. Like you have to think about the shot before you take action. an image with the film because you're not going to be able to go back at it and also because it's got so much so you're not going to spend 10 frames into one thing until you get it right you have to make yourself really purposefully thinking about the shot but also if it's like you cannot fail with film like even a overexposed shot can look beautiful underexposed shot on film can look beautiful as well the imperfection I think that's what people liked Because we've seen all these iPhone photos that are getting better, better, and better, or the DSLR getting better, better, and the same thing with the mirrorless. The megapixels on there, it's more and more, it's more. It's veering to perfection, but then with film, it's a bit of unknown, spontaneity, imperfection that is so romantic, so beautiful. I love it, but I also love, yeah, you can't go wrong with film. The highlights are always... It always works. So it's, yeah, it sounds maybe so idealistic, but I wish we could just do everything on film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Just because as well, like I don't, then I'll have less time editing in front of the computer as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, that's something you brought up. I mean, on that, I was just winding back to the, shooting film. I did only yesterday watch a YouTube video of and I've heard directors and I know Scott Hicks who was an Australian director who shot a bunch of stuff. I asked him the same question about why are motion pictures still being shot on film and the two things they bring up are number one is a look that yes you can probably get 99% there with digital but it's a lot of effort and it's And in many cases, why would you take the effort to make it look like something and take a lot of effort to make it look like something when you've got all these other choices with digital? So you don't often get to a full film look with digital, even though it's available. And secondly, it's about the unification of vision where everyone is serious on the set because there's a lot of money about to be wasted. Everyone takes it. The silence is that much greater. What has been shot, you're never quite sure you've got a good feel for it, but... You know, it's a lot more of the moment and your hands are in it. The product's in other people's hands so there's less people tinkering with control. So I thought that was really, you know, an absolutely fascinating look into it because really now we know that Kodak is not a great big rich company anymore. They're not throwing money at the film world. It's directors choosing and spending all this extra money on it. So there must be a very good reason for it. I understand what, you know, what you're thinking about there.
SPEAKER_00:It's the same as what our dear friend Sai Moore was saying.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That our eyes see colours, the Kodak colours really, like our old generation is 35mm lens is the perfect documentary lens because this is what your eyes see. And this is what you're used to. The films that you grew up with, everything that you see were the Kodak colours. So when people see images on the screen, like on my computer, I always want to revert back to the colours. The greens have to be greens a certain way that Kodak does it. The blue have to be blue a certain way that Kodak does it. Because in my head, this is what images look like. Because from movies, from... Yeah, from how you grew up, this is how you see it. That's why it was– what's that movie with Viggo Mortensen that says the Kodachrome movie? Oh,
SPEAKER_02:yeah, about the last role of Kodachrome. Yes,
SPEAKER_00:yeah, it's funny. Ed Harris was in that, was he? Yeah, Ed Harris, that's right. That was– yeah, Ed Harris, yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting. And I think this is also what it comes to. It's just that we are used to it. This is what we want to see. But we are. But what
SPEAKER_02:about your kids? Like,
SPEAKER_00:does this end, do you think? Yeah, it probably will end, actually. Then you'll be used to me. Don't say that. Or maybe I'll come back such in strong force that this is what they will see. But
SPEAKER_02:I
SPEAKER_00:don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Who knows? I
SPEAKER_00:mean, my kids, they love all the movies. Like, they're watching the 90s movies.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Like, they love that still. So, yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that's it. It's culture layered. And we are revisiting past culture. And I think, you know, the look of a lot of the films we love, like Wes Anderson's style, is Kubrick in some ways on– on acid like it's not on acid it's
SPEAKER_01:Kubrick controlled to
SPEAKER_02:perfection it's you know like it's cartoonish in some ways for for a Kubrick look
SPEAKER_01:it's composed yeah
SPEAKER_02:yes he's taken it and gone to the next level of of perfection and including the models and the way the lenses work with models and you know and scale it playing with animation in some ways so yeah it's it is Layering on– so I do think there is a decent history and people– young kids– I know my 19 and 20-year-old daughter's discovering film are very excited for something that is not, you know, built on layers and layers of programmers and it needs a battery to run. And they're excited by, you know, cooking their own food. You know, they're excited by under-processed living. You know, they're excited by living in a small house. So, you know, maybe it's there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think it'd be– like you were saying about the directors like trying to make it look like film why not using the real thing like same for me i wish i could have a preset that i could put in my camera then all the photos i take is already all processed to the way I want. And I don't want to spend hours and hours on the computer editing the same way as film. The film, the role of film already gives me a bit of that color. And then I send that to you and you guys do it for the colors. But I want to go out there and shoot. I don't want to be sitting down there and thinking about all the technicalities of settings. And I want to strip that back. I want everything stripped back. Does that make sense? And I think that's what's going to come back. It's the– go back to the basics. Like stop adding new things. To you and the couple,
SPEAKER_02:you and your subject.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:yeah. And very little in between. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:like, yeah, that's why like the iPhones are getting more and more competent. But what about just going back to just simplicity?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think there's a good chance that technology will loop past that and the– like I think– A Nikon, Canon, Sony will work out the interface on the back of the camera. They have to simplify it. It's just stupid. If they want to sell cameras, they have to be as simple as a phone where you switch it on and press do this and do that. And if you want the complexity, you reveal it in other ways. But you switch it on with a– I was looking at Kate's Olympus system. She's got a micro four thirds. You switch it on and it's just– it makes you weep trying to work out just how to set the ISO. Like I just want to turn one dial or even if it's a touchscreen– You know, I just want to, there it is, like don't make it hard. So look, let's go back on, let's wind back because you mentioned you went and had a diagnosis for ADHD because you're having trouble editing, right? So you've mentioned in our last conversation that we've been talking about is all of this post-processing is obviously challenging for you. How have you solved that now? And obviously you want to fix things and just move on and keep shooting. You're not stopping shooting because you're afraid of editing. What's the next step for you with that? What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00:So now that I've had the diagnosis, I could see that this is not going to be healthy for me to try to do something that I actually can't. My brain is not wired properly. So yeah, I can take medication that helps to a certain extent. But now I just outsource. I spend a lot of my budget that I earn into outsourcing. So outsourcing the editing, video editing, outsourcing the photo editing. So I use as well a program called Imogen. Imogen?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Imogen. Yeah, we both saw that. So have you been using that for a long time? No,
SPEAKER_00:not long. I think the past six months maybe. Okay. Yeah. And that's, it's very clever. It's AI. Yeah. I don't know where you stand on AI, but if it makes my life easier. I'm excited about it. Why not? Yeah. To a certain extent. We'll say that. I mean,
SPEAKER_02:you still have to deliver it. Morgan's still got to deliver the product to the client. So you still have to, no matter what tool you're using. You still have to approve the result the tool produces and release it to the client. You're not getting rid of that, right?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no, no. So, for example, my process is I cull all the photos myself. I don't let the software do it because there's an option for it as well. But I cull it myself because sometimes I know I've taken very blurry photos that's slanted, but I know I want to crop in later. Like I already know what I want to do with that image. So I cull everything. Then I edit about 120 images myself, which will be the preview or my best, like the highlights. And then the rest, I will send that to the software to edit itself with my own preset that I've sent them. So you can choose per gallery what preset you want to apply or what look you want to have for that. And then the AI will learn what you want to do with that. And then it will edit and it comes back to you. as a Lightroom file and then you open that up and then you can tweak them again. But usually it's pretty bang on. Like this will be the photos usually about like the dance floor images or the guest photos at the reception and things like that. I don't have to spend hours on that. Like it's just a matter of bumping the shadows and whatever. So it still takes me a lot of time. And you're training
SPEAKER_02:that AI. You're training it to get what Morgan wants.
UNKNOWN:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it. You send them about, I think it's about 6,000 edited images at first. And then you will create a profile for you based on your own photos. So then you will learn that, oh yeah, in that situation with the shadows like that, she likes it a bit lighter in the face, like the shadows a bit higher. Because it also creates masks. You know the Lightroom masks? So it doesn't– like it really is very focused as an editing tool. And it's getting smarter and smarter as the software like updates. It's amazing. Now you can actually also– The more it
SPEAKER_02:sees, the better it gets, surely, the more you correct it. And look, this is the thing. This is the difference. I don't know if listeners understand because we've talked about over the years presets, and I've been a big whinger about presets because they're designed with one image– in mind for one photographer or maybe a series of styles. So you can make presets, but they've got to be for the same sort of image in many ways. You can't just apply a blanket. Whereas AI is looking and responding to each image based on how you've adjusted it in the past. And then the more you adjust it, the more it learns. So it's really interesting. Is this sort of broken– I don't mean to be personal about it, but broken your profitability as a wedding photographer or how– How have you managed it financially? Because obviously your costs have gone up. You've been outsourcing everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that's where it was pretty difficult. This year I can see the ramifications of it, but now I've changed my pricing accordingly. So when I was really, really suffering with the editing, like I could not get the editing done and then my standards were getting lower because I wasn't delivering to the standards and to the timeframe that I was going to, that I wanted to deliver the galleries to like for the couples usually it's about three months and I was at like four five months out and I was still struggling with the editing so that's when I was like I need to find a solution now and so that's where I started to outsource the video video editing and that editing so back the year before when I priced when I got the when I priced that package, it didn't take into account the outsourcing. So yes, that's what you're saying. So I see the ramifications now that my profits have gone really, really down. I don't actually make a wage this year at all. But next year, yeah, then I've worked out the prices and the budget. So I've bumped them up a little bit to allow for that outsourcing so I can still get a wage. But yeah, I could have waited, but I couldn't. because then it would have been negative for my business. Like I would have had bad reviews, I guess, on my standards if I kept it going. And
SPEAKER_02:it'll probably coincide beautifully with your desire to lessen the amount of weddings you're doing any rate. You know, you naturally restrain them by being slightly higher priced over the competition. But you're offering something that's really unique in the multiple– styles you know with film and digital and all that kind of stuff and also with the way you respond to couples and your the style that you're actually putting out is I think I think it's really unique and I I can't see you'd ever lose work uh for pricing except if it was ridiculous you know if you're a reason I can't see that would ever affect you um so this is a really exciting thing this is good
SPEAKER_00:yeah no I think I've found a good balance with that so yeah
SPEAKER_02:get
SPEAKER_00:So getting that diagnosis, and I hope this talk might help some other people that might be struggling with this or might not have a diagnosis and make them think, oh, maybe I should go and talk about it. Yeah. This really helped. And then knowing this helps me to then take steps to help me. Like even if you don't want to take the medication or whatever, that's fine. But then knowing this helps. helps me yeah taking the the right steps and keep on with that business and also because like you said I want to I don't think I'll be able to shoot weddings to the rate I'm shooting at as I go in the future like my body um yeah I've had sore wrists you know about that about sore wrists um and it's getting worse and worse so I'm really pin the work that I do, the projects that I choose to do. But in saying that though, I don't, I've had a question at the workshop the other day. People said, oh, how do you choose your couples that you're working with? And is it, you know, do you look at the venue and you're like, no, I don't want to shoot there or things like that? I really don't. do not do that. I ask them to tell me about the venues or themselves purely because I want to kind of make a story. I want to find their story, who they are. But I never ask where the wedding is or whatever just because I'm a bit... I will never say no to some type of weddings because... Because I'm curious, like I said before. I love anything. I will apply my style to anything. It could be a paddock wedding. It could be a castle wedding. It could be a backyard, an allotment in the house, like allotment in a hotel. It could be anything. The more different even, the better for me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I was talking about this, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, that's really cool. Well, I– The last question I'm going to ask you, because I'm curious, I can see you've come to a crossroads and you've seen a little bit what might be to your future. And we talked about 10 years we're going to get together and talk about film. And you've just done a workshop and you've talked about art direction and the way that works. And it was a really great lineup for that workshop. I'm going to include a link. in the show notes so that people can see about it because I think you've recorded it, haven't you? So that, um,
SPEAKER_00:no, we didn't end up recording it.
SPEAKER_02:How exciting. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's fine. It was very exclusive. Paul was VIP. Well,
SPEAKER_02:that's a really good thing because then people, I wanted to know what's next for Morgan. What, what are you trying? What are you, where are you heading? What do you want to do? Um, I think the workshops you presented so well at, Refocus Retreat. I think the people, I mean, the presentation you gave on working with your inspiration was great. You gave the attendees a chance to make a picture based on something that had inspired them immediately right there and then. So you kind of encouraged this play and this activity. So I think you've got a good thing in that world, but You know, you're a really good wedding photographer. You shouldn't stop doing that. And your fashion work's fantastic. And your documentary for the magazine. What do you want to do next? What's your big, what's your big, what they call a big hairy ass goal? What do you want to do? I
SPEAKER_00:want to pay my taxes. Survival. Survival. But no, I've really enjoyed it. working in actually art direction. I've done a shoot recently with Ollie Simpson for a bridal company, a bridal designer, and he asked me to come there to help him out on the day. I was like, oh, do you need me like second shooting or like helping you with the lights? He said, no, just come in. I need you there to help me on the day with the concept and things like that. So I helped him. Yeah, we did together. We I helped with the lights and stuff. I brought some things. I brought some ideas. But that was basically art direction. And I loved that. I wasn't taking the photos and I loved it. I actually loved not taking the photos. I loved seeing the picture, organizing it, brainstorming and bouncing ideas off with someone else and just seeing it coming to life. And this is what I did with the workshop. I wanted to create an environment and different theme zones for other photographers to come in and shoot and looking at what they see, looking at how they capture, looking at them taking the photo, which came from my brain, my concept and my art direction, putting it out there and then someone else shoots it. And I love that. And I am pleased to say that I actually got, I sold my first... Since I've been doing a project, like project manager back in the day in France, I used to do that all the time and be paid for it. But I never included that in my business now. I've actually sold my first art direction brief to a big company. They're going to use that and I'm going to organize the whole shoot with the concept and the ideas. My idea is to make the product shine and I might not be taking the photos. I'm just going to be there doing the production. and doing the supervising it. And I think I actually really enjoy that. I don't think I'll ever stop taking photos or shooting. But maybe the next step for me is for my physical health, scaling back on the actual shooting and carrying camera and more thinking about direction and art direction. And maybe as well, I'd love to do more portraiture. So cinema related, the same. That's why I'm going to do the Cannes Festival. I'd love to do this more. Yeah. Arts, portraits like musicians, actors and things like that, like for magazines, so editorials. I'd love to do that a bit more.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's so cool. I
SPEAKER_00:think that's the next thing.
SPEAKER_02:That's very exciting. Well, next thing really is France for a year, which is… That's a big thing. I mean, I can't even imagine what you and your family would do to get there and what, you know, like it's a big disruptive thing, but it's very smart and very exciting. Great opportunity. I
SPEAKER_00:think it's
SPEAKER_02:amazing.
SPEAKER_00:It's really good. I can't wait to eat more croissants. And bread. Oh, I can't wait to do that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, croissant. You've got me thinking about food now. Well, Morgan, thank you so much. It's been wonderful catching up. I can't wait to see where you're going. It's just the best. And I hope, I really do hope that workshops and a bit of that stuff does stay in your future. I think you've got a natural way of, and certainly the collaboration, which is what you described, I think, with Ollie and, where you're collaborating with him and you are bringing your powers, because he's like an incredible artist as well. I think that's a really exciting thing. So please don't ever change that side of your life. I think the world will be poorer off for it, okay?
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Paul. Yeah, collaboration would be great. Workshop, I've had a few people asking me to run the same one, that one, Our Direction, again, maybe in France and stuff like that.
UNKNOWN:But I...
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. It's a very tough gig to do when people are looking at you with the big eyes waiting for you to give them knowledge and things. And I'm like, I'm just improvising here. I don't know anything. I don't know what– I'm just making things as I go. Please don't look at me for knowledge. I don't know anything.
SPEAKER_02:That's really hard. And we've touched on that, haven't we, how a lot of your skills are just an inherent in you. and they've come from whatever's happened to you in your life and you are where you're at, but you're making great use of it, which is, you know, like people would fold up and, you know, not live their life like you are, which is very exciting. So congratulations.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Thanks, Paul.
SPEAKER_02:And good luck for next year, huh?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Well, maybe you'll have to come over and visit Paris, eh?
SPEAKER_02:I'm already looking at that festival in Brest, which is, of course, you know. Yes. Brittany, I'm looking at that festival next year and I spoke to a friend yesterday who sailed into it. So there you go. It might be the case.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's the moment. There's no time like now, Paul. Again, you're not getting any younger, eh?
SPEAKER_02:So true. So true. All right, Morgan, we'll hang up and I'll see you around.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much.