Atkins Labcast
Hosted by Kate and Paul Atkins, the third generation owners of the oldest photo lab in Australia. A podcast about living with and loving photography. From philosophy to technicalities, for amateurs, artists and professionals, we talk about it all.
Atkins Labcast
Atkins Labcast Episode 50 - Yasemin Sabuncu
SALA SOLO Opportunity winner Yasemin Sabunco joins Paul for a chat about her award winning show, Axis Mundi. While this show is photographic, Yasemin also works in moving image and performance. This episode tackles issues of social media, self image, culture and life as an artist and online personality.
https://www.instagram.com/hi_yasemin/
https://www.salafestival.com/awards/
https://inreview.com.au/inreview/visual-art/2024/09/04/eerie-images-shine-fresh-light-on-our-selfie-obsession/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYUO4fMnaFF85L6KbHmjVB-Nz1medFaCqNMcv6o6XI1Pjkkzx3IueJrnvY_aem_HjMKxc0ka0wYaY-V22pQRg
https://www.adelaidefilmfestival.org/news/aff-expand-lab-2025-commission-recipients
https://www.ccp.sa.edu.au/
https://www.praxisartspace.com/
G'day listeners, welcome to episode 50 of the Atkins Labcast. In this episode, I interview Yasmin Sabunja. Yasmin is the winner of the 2023 Sala Solo Photographic Opportunity. What is Sala Solo, I hear you ask? Well, let's break it down. Sala is a South Australian Living Artist Festival. It's a festival that happens for the month of September, effectively, every year. And this year there was over 10,000 exhibiting artists here in South Australia. So last year we invited a bunch of people to apply. Yasmin applied and proposed the show she wanted to make for the 2024 festival. So the solo opportunity is a prize that Gavin from Centre for Creative Photography, Paddy Shahadi from Praxis Artspace and myself, Paul Atkins from Atkins Lab, put together to try and work with an artist over the year leading up to Sala to build a show of their intentions. So we're giving the production away. Gavin's giving curation and mentoring assistance and, you know, overall concept work. And Paddy's giving the space away at her spectacular gallery here in Bowdoin in South Australia. So it's pretty full-on opportunity for, There's lots to it. And so we get to work with this person for the better part of a year on their show. So Yasmin's our winner. She put a really clever show together that sparked all of our imaginations and it's got a finalized, finalized? Got a finalist in many of the prizes that are given out around Sala Festival, which is great. She's had lots of interviews in the media. It's created a buzz. In fact, I think we actually chose a really good person. She was an apt winner of this opportunity. At any rate, I hope you enjoy the interview. It's a great little chat. We sit here in the office. The audio is lovely. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you on the flip side. Darla Solo, Photographic Opportunity winner, 23-24. Do you want to tell us what... your Axis Mundi shows about?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I guess it's like in response to how I felt on social media and having worked in tech and taking self-portraits for so long, just seeing how life had sort of changed because I guess I lived without social media as a child and just seeing people affected by, I guess, self-esteem issues or body dysmorphia and also my own personal identity, like feeling like, oh, maybe I'm... getting old or I'm too fat or this or that, you know, like things that aren't even my thoughts, but I was feeling them bombarding me and sort of, yeah, affecting my self-worth, which was very odd and how addicted I was to social media as well. So
SPEAKER_01:this didn't come in whilst you're doing selfies before because you said you've been doing selfies well before and I know we've talked about you doing them back in the film days. Yeah. And like the earliest photographs were people shooting themselves. So this is a, you know, a cool thing. You didn't find yourself being– or judging yourself in a different way from those days? It only came about because of social media?
SPEAKER_00:I feel that, but also ageing a bit, I guess. But I don't know, like I was very feminist and very like, oh, I don't have to fit into society's models of, beauty or whatever because I guess I did feel like a bit of an outsider being you know Turkish and I guess BIPOC like person of color kind of vibes and not seeing people like me represented that much in the media but now like so many people are getting and I'm not judging because I understand why they do it like plastic surgery or Botox or fillers and people as young as 18 I was just like people don't know what's real anymore online and that was to me scary that people were like putting selfies of themselves online and going oh wow this is me and I'm and as a photographer I was like that is a very filtered photoshopped augmented image where I've met you in real life you don't look like that but people don't realize that the phones had these effects that were already built in and I think like we're getting used to wanting perfection from every image we post of ourselves online or
SPEAKER_01:any image you take
SPEAKER_00:yeah totally and Yeah, I don't know. I just– it sort of just happened. I guess I love taking self-portraits either as different archetypes and this sort of– They're coming for us. Hide the stash. I'm joking. The stash of film. That was quite apt. Wasn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, we break your chain of thought with the hoppy doodle truck that went past.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was an ambulance. It wasn't police coming for us. No, not this time. It was some poor person. So we should, what's the thing, grab a button or say a wishful thing for people who had to get picked up by the ambulance?
SPEAKER_00:Well, on a tangent, I nearly died in an ambulance. So for me, yeah. Wait, what? On my birthday, yeah, 2017, it was, I took penicillin and I'd taken it before and I don't know what the circumstances was, but that day, Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Okay so you're off on another tangent at that point in time and it's you thought and it was because of the the time you had reflecting on life that really brought you back there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah but like they say your life flashes before you I didn't really get that I was just feeling like oh my god I still have so much to do and right now because I was quite unwell back then because I have a disability and I just had my surgery for endo only like six seven months ago so it was sort of I still wasn't 100% and still coming to terms with
SPEAKER_01:it. Endometriosis, like, I mean, it's fairly newly diagnosed, but everyone, like the history of people suffering from it is generational. It's since the beginning of time and we haven't realised what it is. And now we are. It's being addressed. And I noticed, like, so let's go, we were talking about social media affecting how you feel, but you've also made... about yourself, but you also made a great platform out of it. And you've talked about endometriosis on social media. You've talked about political issues, Free Palestine. You've done a wonderful job of being an advocate You were telling us what Access Mundi is about. Let's get back onto that.
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, guys. Tangents. I do have ADHD. Welcome. Yeah, I guess, yeah, Access Mundi has so many layers to it. It's sort of about, I guess, the commodification of beauty, the beauty standards, hyper-individualism, social media, and, yeah, I guess, like, how we show ourselves online, as I was mentioning before. Like, what is real and... Yeah, like what is going to be real in the future? There's so much misinformation online and something as innocuous as a selfie is also, I guess, yeah, a great barometer of truth. Like if we can't even take a self-portrait where we feel like we have to look a certain way and be airbrushed into oblivion and, you know, like what's that saying about us as people and as a society and also the currency of beauty. And I guess like female identifying people probably feel this a bit more and men and other genders are too, but just that our worth is so predicated on how we look online, whether we live a luxurious life, whether we're hot, young, successful, you know what I mean? Like all these things were sort of bubbling up In the surfaces I was making this and I was like, how do I condense so many ideas into one thing? And I thought self-portraiture because it's how we show who we are as an individual but also as society because we value certain types of portraits and we also, yeah, who gets to have a beautiful portrait and gets to be on the cover of Time magazine and who doesn't? And I guess with some of the Palestine, Sudan, Congo stuff like, what kind of voices are, you know, have worth in the media or are seen in a certain light. And I guess, you know, we're very lucky in the West. We're very privileged and our portraits look a certain way. And yeah, it was very interesting, like what we value in our Western society as self-portraiture to me.
SPEAKER_01:It's a challenging, like these platforms, these social media platforms, they're sort of amplifying probably these feelings we've always had. I mean, as soon as we could see a reflection of ourselves, But yet there's also so much, there's wonder in all this social media stuff
SPEAKER_00:too. Totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's really complicated, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I guess, you know, when I did that artist talk, like anything can be a beautiful tool or a weapon. And I guess, you know, like for me, we touched on it briefly, but like the disability community has been huge for me. I probably wouldn't have been diagnosed with endo or ADHD if I didn't have my online communities offering advice or being like, hang on. like you're in your thirties, like that's not normal to be in that much pain or, you know, to have these obstacles in your life. It's not just you being lazy or tired or exhausted. Um, yeah, there's something fundamentally often. Yeah. So it was great to be informed by people who have lived experiences because so much of the media, like the mainstream media, um, Is people in positions of power who might not often have the lived experience of those people.
SPEAKER_01:They're gatekeepers. They're editors to make the story interesting. If it bleeds, it leads. Yeah. Although, you know, it's complicated. But then you go back and you look at the medical profession and thank God for them and what they've helped us out with over the years. But still, they choose what they fix first and, you know, the interesting things, the things that, Wealthy people get problems with Get Fixed First. Yeah. Funny that a major women's issue gets forgotten about or not looked into enough like endometriosis. It's bizarre.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's like the population that has endometriosis is the same as diabetes. And you know what I mean? Like it's quite a significant population amount and yet we just don't have enough research. And the research also, again, has politics and, you know. Yeah. Well, it's funding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It's funding. They have to compete for money. Totally. And I think in a lot of ways, a lot of social media would be driven by people trying to make a living because they can't just get a normal job like they did before. Yeah. I mean, both my daughters have said at some stage of their development, oh, you know, I could talk about food on YouTube and have a channel and make money out of it. They're looking for jobs. Totally. And part of that is you've got to show up looking the best you can.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:You know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Get the clicks and the likes and that. So, yeah, so complex.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. And it's funny because there's also like, I guess, an opposition to that with some people who are like, you know, they don't like their feeds to be curated or, you know, looking– so polished or even like yeah people like alicia key's not really wearing makeup so much i think she might be back to wearing makeup now but yeah like it was nice to be seeing even people like pamela anderson being like i'm a woman of a certain age and this is yeah like it was
SPEAKER_01:amazing
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:we get it now because that wouldn't have made it into women's day or the magazines that you normally see these people pop up pop up in over the years
SPEAKER_00:oh yeah they They would have been like, oh, Pamela looks terrible. Yeah, let's lift her up. Like, let's mock her for looking natural or whatever. That's
SPEAKER_01:right, yeah. Whereas socials at least gives that chance to lift that. So tell me, you shot originally on film and you would have got early digitals.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. What was Axis Mundi shot on? Ah,
SPEAKER_00:it was on an iPhone 13 Pro. Wow. Yeah, and… You know, I always was like, oh, I want to shoot medium format. I want to shoot this. But I just thought. You
SPEAKER_01:had the chance for the show, didn't you? Totally. We all talked about whether you got in the dark room with, you know, with Gavin. You shot and processed at the Centre for Creative Photography. We talked about that. And you found yourself back at the phone, which is really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like, you know what it's like. There's this sort of. I guess looking down on sometimes digital photography or digital techniques. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:totally. People look down on phones. I think it's the greatest camera that's been invented since cameras have been invented, frankly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And just the tech and that you can do augmented reality stuff on there. There's multiple lenses. And yeah, I just played with that, which you described very well. I don't quite know the speak of how I got the glitches and That wouldn't be possible on a digital camera. I did try. Like, I love glitches and glitches have been sort of part of my body of work for video art and photography for a while. And I like the imperfect or the so-called errors or the invalid responses that are shown through the, I guess, data sensors.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I did have a... a huge rant on it, and this is about you. I'm not going to rant. I will say, though, it's basically the robots making shit up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's the robots in your phone, the software, the hardware, the circuitry that's saying, oh, there's a bit of noise there. Is that a part of her hair? Yeah. Well, let's just make it. Yeah. And stick some more hair or whatever it happens to be. Now, it's not augmenting to that point where it's giving you a new hairdo or anything, but it's just adding stuff into it that wouldn't have normally been there or was exaggerating things that were, it's detected as a little bit of grain or something. And suddenly you have this magic, like the pictures were generally magic. Yeah. And so the other thing I loved about the show was the way the space works. And I know that there was a, we all stood there and we talked about it. And I don't know whether it was you or Patty or Dre, but one of the, one of the, people said, well, why don't we just face one way? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You
SPEAKER_01:know, and we had this idea of this cultural area. Yes. Which was a peaceful, what did you call that area? It was like a temple or a?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was almost like a sanctuary.
SPEAKER_01:Sanctuary.
SPEAKER_00:Because all the photos are actually shot either in a bedroom or my own bedroom. So I wanted, you know, they shot in the pitch dark, just illuminated by the phone screen. Yeah, lit by the. Almighty phone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. And yeah, I thought that was kind of symbolic in other ways of, you know, social media illuminating certain truths and how, I guess, addicted we are, sort of like monster flame. But I tangent out. But yeah, the cultural area also, I guess, being, you know, Muslim, Turkish, I wanted to represent my culture in an exhibition space. And I wanted to have a space that we're often consuming these social media, you know, from our bedrooms, our homes, our lounges, toilets, wherever you, you know what I mean? Like I wanted to have, you know, take people on a journey from home to the dark room that they ended up in and kind of subvert, I guess, a normal photo exhibition that's traditionally white walls and, Yeah, put photos in an interesting way for people to, like, engage with.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the hero image that we all angsted about, and it is a beautiful traditional-looking portrait, something you might see hanging in a sanctuary, and it was singular and unique and there was cushions on the floor and it was inviting you to sit peacefully. However, to see the rest of the show, you had to turn your back on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:On the cultural backgrounds, on the sanctuary, on the peace and quiet, on the idea that could be other people sitting with you. Yeah. Yeah, the talking. You had to turn your back on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then you were faced with a flicking screen, simulating scrolling. Then you were faced with these strips, which are defined, called Muybridge-style strips, which were– The same image repeated with slight variations. Yeah. And that was sort of suggesting, you know, you were trying to get, gather images, the right image, trying to find the perfect image, you know. And then when you go into the discovery room or the dark room, whatever you want to call it, where it was, I don't know, it felt like I was in your head at night, not being able to sleep. And then you illuminate the walls with your own phone. So every visitor was invited to turn the phone on. Yeah. And then have this discovery of pictures around the wall. So were they symbolising what was in your imagination or what was that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, like, I guess like I love Jungian psychology and I guess archetypes and shamanism and different things. So the void or the dark space can mean many things. It's like full of potential and infinity. And, you know, we come from darkness, we end up in darkness. But also like, I guess, the isolation you can feel online. Like I wanted everyone to kind of make up their own meaning, but we're all affected by the dark. Like you can't not be affected when you walk into that room, whether you like the photos or not, you will have a reaction to the darkness. And I kind of wanted to have that effect on people, like to walk into a space where their senses have to be heightened and looking at photography in a different way. So I guess, yeah, I wanted to create that through the darkness as well, but also... The darkness also for me represents, I guess, like things in the cloud or things in data centers because like, you know, those images are sort of popping up and you have to navigate to them. And it's sort of like, yeah, I wanted to reflect maybe what the internet might feel in my brain, like these sort of different things popping up into our attention and our consciousness.
SPEAKER_01:That is so cool.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't see that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I know. That's why I don't like to tell people that. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so prescriptive though. I'm so nerdy. I'm like, tell me that I need to know and then I make it up if you don't tell me and then I think that's it and I put it in a box and go, but it's not it. There's more to it. Or there could be, there's so much to it.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. And, you know, there's so much more I could add. But I just, yeah, I love, you know, we all have our own meaning to it and the artist's interpretation as well.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the curtains we had sort of tied into the curtains in the front room, like I wanted it still to reflect the spectacle of being online because, yeah, it can seem like a performance for people even whether they're aware of it or not.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's the, I think, if you can teach kids one thing is, you know, what people put online is not... you know, what their reality is. It's what they want you to think their reality is. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. It's unbelievable. Like, I've met people who will hire cars or live, you know, go to an Airbnb and pretend like it's their house. Like, it's just...
SPEAKER_01:Do you think about that honesty when you're posting? Like, I know, but forgetting your political posting, putting that aside, your personal stuff, do you fight with the idea that I need to be being more honest with my friendly viewers?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because... I will say I'm very censored. Like I do feel like I hold back from the things I'd like to be saying online. And even like you've seen my stories, I can like show you different cultural, political issues that I want to give voice to, whether that's disability rights or, you know, what's happening in the Congo with like, ironically with iPhone and the the mining for that. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But then on my main, I keep it kind of a bit more professional. Like, oh, I've got an exhibition. Like, it feels a bit bland. And sometimes I used to overshare a lot online, like so much. And that's fine. But I just feel like, yeah, sometimes I'm like, what happened? Did I become domesticated? Because I was quite wild online. Like, here's me at a party. And I think, yeah, like, let's subvert this. And you know what I mean? Like, now I'm like, look at my Insta feed. And I'm like... What happened? Because I want to be hireable. I want to have galleries be like, oh, yeah, she's political, but she's not going to rock the boat too much.
SPEAKER_01:The nice thing about stories are the fact it's gone in 24 hours.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_02:yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I use it for the same reason. I put a lot of stuff on the stories because I know it's gone and I'm not too precious about it. In fact, I'm a bit surprised when I accidentally put something on my main feed. Yeah. I think it's how you're using it, and I think there's opportunities in there You know, to think that way. And it is important to get a living. That's society we live in. So as you said, being employable or grant receivable. Totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, because let's be honest, it has affected people's income. But then I'm like, oh, man, why do I– like I'm not a free person if I'm being affected by that. It's
SPEAKER_01:a slavery of kind.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like my mind is being– embedded with these thoughts that I might not be able to do the kind of works I want to do. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Our kids do it, putting everything online and then how will they ever get a job? But everyone's putting everything. And so I don't know if they'll ever restrict, you know, you look back in the past and say, oh, they were a weirdo when they were 16. I'm not giving them a job.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_01:Like
SPEAKER_00:they're all
SPEAKER_01:weirdos at some stage and we go through these cycles.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, totally. But yeah, I guess some people, if they put, Yeah, political stuff, they're not going to get some permission. So that's my only worry. And, I mean, I've been posting political stuff for, like, most of my life online and pre-online because I used to be a street artist. Okay,
SPEAKER_01:okay, tell us. Let's go back. One, one, one back. You're more than a visual artist. Yes. Tell us what else– floats your boat
SPEAKER_00:yeah I guess um I do comedy not so much yeah I had a one woman show called The Illest which was then Sick Bitch for Adelaide Fringe yeah
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_00:and Midsommar which was about my journey with chronic illness and disability and everything I tried to get better which never worked because I had endo and I didn't know I had endo um and I guess yeah you were
SPEAKER_01:trying all these different oh man art things
SPEAKER_00:oh oh my god like if if Think of the wackiest thing. I've probably tried it because I was so desperate. I'm like, what is wrong with me? I want to have a. Oh, that's
SPEAKER_01:awful. I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh, but I
SPEAKER_00:just. Like there's a fine line between tragedy and comedy. So it is funny in hindsight now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I guess, yeah, I'm like a writer, like I work in video art and performance art. Because
SPEAKER_01:that thing we judged that gave you the award had a video component.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And it's funny because it's about, the show is always about a still photographic show, but we gave you the award because we liked your video work. We liked it more than we liked the
SPEAKER_02:stills. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. And that just shows you where we're not looking. We're looking for the idea and the person's thinking, thought process, not just their ability to take it off. But at any rate, so you're doing video art.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:A bit of comedy. You're performing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, not so much. Like I've sort of been very dedicated to this show now that I'm a bit more free. Like I might get back into it.
SPEAKER_01:Fringe next year?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I love the fringe, but I want to have my own TV show. So I'm kind of pitching to different people at the moment and had a few bites. So hopefully maybe it'll be on a TV show.
SPEAKER_01:What sort of a TV show would it be?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, so I'd love to turn Sick Bitch into like a TV show of, you know, what it was like. It's not going to be autobiographical. It'll be informed by, I guess, my life when I used to live in Byron Bay in different communities.
SPEAKER_01:Byron Bay? Yeah. So what made you escape from that place? I didn't mean it that way.
SPEAKER_00:It is a bubble.
SPEAKER_01:Is it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like it's hard to leave. It's sort of like, yeah, a sci-fi TV show. Like you want to leave, but you just can't. Hotel California. Yeah. But in a beautiful way, but I guess homelessness, like it's so expensive to live there and not many jobs that are the kind of work I want to do. And even if you did have a cafe job, you couldn't afford to live in the Northern rivers. Like it's phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you need like, like to win the lotto. Do you buy a ticket?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, sometimes actually I do. I'm like, let's throw a curve ball in the universe and see what other parts of me winning. But yeah. Yeah, I loved it there, but then I also did see it become a bit more, I don't know. Yeah, I don't want to say because, yeah, it was just, I did see, I guess. You saw a change. Yeah, I saw a change. It wasn't
SPEAKER_01:like, I don't know, was it the, like the whole idea of a sea change, tree change? Yeah. When people, and because the internet allows you to work remotely, was that what happened, do you think? Totally, yeah. So people flooded into it, and of course housing changed. Prices.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Breaking everything.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. Yeah. And even like, because I probably stopped living there permanently about 2014, I think. 2014,
SPEAKER_01:right.
SPEAKER_00:But I kept going back. You know, I just was like, oh, I'll spend three months in Byron and maybe pet sit and see friends. Because I was trying to pitch a TV show about life in Byron. And then, yeah, just life got in the way and I got very sick. And then... So it feels good that now I'm better. I would like to maybe make that TV show a bit more different and have a disabled character on the main screen as a protagonist that defies the stereotypes of what a disabled person is. I
SPEAKER_01:think the world's ready for it. Well, Australia, the TV's ready for it. There's been some really good Australian television being made about the place at the moment. So I think there's... I think, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Things are changing, so that's exciting. So
SPEAKER_01:you're not the sort of person who would go and try and make a YouTube short of it and then pitch that? How do you go about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, ironically, I do want to do that, but my ADHD, it's so funny. I've been wanting to make TikToks since TikTok was for kids, and I just haven't. I don't know. I think I have that. perfectionism in me that stops it and maybe if I had collaborators I'd do it but it's it's a lot for me to do on my own sometimes and but I do feel more ready to do it and make bite-sized stuff and
SPEAKER_01:because TikTok is a great platform for that short form comedy
SPEAKER_00:totally yeah like it's I love yeah I love TikTok and social media like as much as I have issues about social media I'd I wouldn't be addicted if it wasn't good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's strange. I really see the value and the joy in it and the democratisation of communication. And yes, of course, it's being throttled, whether it be TikTok being throttled by the Chinese government or Mark Zuckerberg controlling your Instagram feed. Yeah, we all know it's messed up, but there is people working and gaming all the time and getting around this stuff and you are still seeing interesting things you know, things being done and people making a living where who would have thought that you could be a comedian on TikTok.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And have an income, a decent income.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Or like that person that went viral recently, she now has her own podcast, like that Hawk Tour. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, like it's, yeah, people are expanding their five seconds of, what is it, 15 seconds of
SPEAKER_01:fame? 15. There was a, yeah, was it 15? Yeah. Andy Warhol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15 minutes. So I just heard of a person and I saw this wrap-up of them. They spent two years in this. And look, it's not for the faint of heart to watch, but they basically ate themselves virtually to death over two years. But they'd been making the content over eight years and then they– stopped and they revealed their actual current weight. And so they've been playing this game of recording this horrible, like this trend of like, of just showing people eating crazily. It's a bit of ASMR and a bit of gross out humor and, and a bit of like drama because people worried about this person. And they're actually, they were quite a good activist in the first place. Anyway, great content. Then moved into eating like junk food wildly until they were like massively obese and unwell. And then, um, stopped and revealed that, oh, no, I've lost all the weight. I'm fine. And they'd been playing this long game, recording content over eight years to make this. Like, that is genius level. Yeah. Like, that's supervillain stuff, really. Totally. Who can make a show eight years ago to release? It's insane.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's just, yeah, it's amazing what people are doing. Like, a girl had a social media thing where she was, like, I guess created herself to be a celebrity that she wasn't. But also like, yeah, going through like fake plastic surgery. Oh, right. Because some people are really into plastic surgery, so people would follow her thinking she'd had all this plastic surgery. Was
SPEAKER_01:she trolling them?
SPEAKER_00:I think she just wanted to do an art piece about like how to build, that she could build that many followers just on something that wasn't even true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? And I do see that. It's an art. A lot of it is art, even though people seem to just be playing games. But if you follow and see what they're doing and they've got an audience, it's an art piece. It's clever stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and just like this time in our humanity where everyone has a voice of some sort, but they can cut through the noise and make their content, I guess, seen or have value and I mean, if it pleases the algorithm gods because you also have to create content. You have to post often and post certain types of things. That's the
SPEAKER_01:ADHD challenge, isn't
SPEAKER_00:it? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I don't know how you get around that sort of stuff. Maybe having a double or someone to work with you. But, you know, who does that? Who gives their time to?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like it's funny. Like I guess when I was co-writing that Byron Bay comedy with my friend, like we had each other and– maybe yeah I might do that but yeah it's funny some people like collaborate with each other so they'll take selfies or restaurant photos and then post it online and do it for each other and that way or they have a cool boyfriend or a girlfriend who does that for them and
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah like I wish I had that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you never know what's around the corner, do
SPEAKER_00:you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So tell me, your real jobs that you had, you said you worked in tech.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What were you doing in tech?
SPEAKER_00:So I guess I was one of Australia's first, like, social media strategists because there wasn't really, like– Yeah, we didn't really come up with that term till later. It was more like, oh, you work in digital media production or you're a digital producer. And then, yeah, these are like MySpace days. And yeah, I sort of really enjoyed, I love technology. I love innovation. I love, yeah, that it can create these utopian ideals. But when you live in systems of oppression, it's hard to sort of create those utopian ideals in reality sometimes. Yeah, I guess I was doing like digital strategy, content creation, app development. And I have worked in crypto too, don't you? Oh,
SPEAKER_01:crypto bro.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, back for Ethereum before it was sort of, yeah, 2016, which was a very random story. I met someone in Bali and because, yeah, we just vibed and they were like, oh, wow, we need people to help us with marketing for Ethereum because it was kind of big back then, but not As big as it became later that year.
SPEAKER_01:And then bubble bursted. Yeah. Whatever. Has it burst?
SPEAKER_00:It did, and now it's sort of starting up again. I mean, the NFT bubble of 2021 burst, and I was working in crypto, yeah, around 2020, 2021 again. Yeah, it always seems to find me, because I am interested in it, but I'm not in it for the like, yeah, I'm not going to say, but yeah, whoops, shit. off the industry. I like the, I was working on arts projects or things. Cause
SPEAKER_01:there's some really interesting stuff there because if you think about photography as art, the idea to print another copy sort of breaks the whole idea that you've made this unique original piece.
SPEAKER_02:That's
SPEAKER_01:true. And the, you know, crypto offered that opportunity to have a, well, it's not what currency is in general, isn't it? It's just, BS that's made up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Like,
SPEAKER_01:we all believe in the dollar now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like.
SPEAKER_01:Now the dollar's only worth 98 cents. Hang on, how does all that work? And even when you push the political scientists and the mathematicians that they go, yeah, it's all a little bit like, what do they call it? Dumbo feather. You know, you need to hang on to it and wish for it to fly.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. It's like a, yeah. ponzi scheme
SPEAKER_01:that's it
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:i know
SPEAKER_00:yeah and i don't know like it was just so exciting working with like artists and people who wanted to use like crypto also to create you know stuff for charities where they didn't have to create these legal chains that they could just give you know like blockchain technology it was sort of like oh you know it's web3 and But then I guess there's environmental impacts of-
SPEAKER_01:Of the server farms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And some of them were very smart. Like I met a guy who's like a billionaire now and he, yeah, has geothermal farms that he uses. So he's actually like not really creating much damage, but other people are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's a funny industry with a lot of charlatans and- Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think a lot of new stuff, it's like the gold rush, really.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:And everyone's, you know, there's all the people that are just digging and making, and then there's all the people that are selling the shovels, and then there's the people that are selling the elbow grease, you know, and the actual bullshit that doesn't mean anything. Wow, that's really cool. So do you find that that stuff, like, is just like a part of you when you're making work. Because, you know, like the skills that making as a social media strategist is basically writing great headlines, you know, and creating visual headlines and stuff that, because people don't consume things longer than a couple of minutes, do they?
SPEAKER_00:No, no. And sort of like thinking of who your audience is and what you're trying to say and whether it's like, Yeah, it can get very gross, like the psychological impact of how you want them to feel like with your content and how do you build community and how do you make, like in terms of crypto or art even, like how do you make it seem scarce and valuable and blah, blah, blah. Ironically, for someone who's done so much of that work, I don't really apply it to my own stuff. Like, it's so weird. I just... You might
SPEAKER_01:have more money.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, maybe I should, but, you know, like... But you
SPEAKER_01:know what it is, and you know it's gross, so... Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:you can kind of tell when it's inauthentic. Like, you can see the copy, and you're like, oh, wow, someone put that in chat, GBT, and, like... they don't really mean what they're saying. Like, I love vulnerable posts. I love people being like, I don't know what I'm doing and this art industry is scary or whatever. Like, I would much rather read that than, yeah, like, I make$20,000 a month. Like, I'm happy for you, but, like.
SPEAKER_01:Shut up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Get out
SPEAKER_01:of my feed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or just, like, let me tell you how you can make$20,000. And it's like, yeah, yeah. you're probably rich and have a team of people helping you. Yeah, the arts industry is hard.
SPEAKER_01:So how do you find your cultural background as being Turkish?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How do you find that balances these sorts of things out? Is there things that you do that level all this sort of out there-ness that bring you back to home?
SPEAKER_00:That's a good question. I guess, like, yeah, I would– I'm quite into– yeah Sufi culture which I guess is more the esoteric aspect of Islam and I really love yeah it's the religion of love and connection and peace and community so I guess for me Turkish people are quite generous and community driven so for me like I try to yeah create that in my life a bit more now that also I'm not as isolated as a fully disabled person. Like I'm a bit more. And
SPEAKER_01:not living in Byron because your family's around here, are they?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And I do feel sad that my granddad passed recently that, you know. Sorry. Yeah, thank you. Like he's in Turkey and like I do feel that sadness that I'm between cultures, that I was born here, but I didn't really spend much time in Turkey. So I'm very skippy. Like I'm very Aussie. And in Adelaide, we don't really have a huge Turkish community and especially here. because I was born in Sydney, like there's more multiculturalism there. Whereas in Adelaide, I felt a bit like I was straddling two worlds. Like I'm not quite Aussie enough, but then I'm not quite Turkish enough. You know what I mean? So my culture informs my work in that. I would like to do more work representing, I guess, the lost crafts of Turkey, like carpets and tiles and, yeah, fabrics. Like I'm really into craft-based stuff as well.
SPEAKER_01:So you find yourself, when you're feeling a little overwhelmed with all this sort of thing, do you call on those things? And does that give you that sense? Like I found in that sanctuary area, I found, and I've not travelled to the east and I've not been to Turkey, but I felt a profound sense of, I wanted to sit on the floor. Yes. And, you know, at the artist talk, you said, provided us with tea traditional Turkish tea which was beautiful and it just felt right you know there was just that right level of ceremony that I didn't feel like I was pretending to be of a different culture but I did feel really good and so is that something that works for you too?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I wish I was I wish I had more of that culture because yeah like I'm very close to my family but yeah I just wish like I do feel like an outsider sometimes in Australia. Well, I guess more so in Adelaide because, you know, it's quite white. Like, not in a bad way, but just I don't really see many people that look like me or are different to the status quo. And, yeah, I love, like, you know, when I lived in Melbourne, I loved living in places like Footscray.
SPEAKER_01:Melbourne's nice, isn't it? But certainly Melbourne, like, it's beautiful. It's down a certain street and you go, oh, my God, every second restaurant is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like, I love... like different cultures and not just my own. And I guess the Ottoman empire, which Turkish culture is based on took so much from other cultures. So I guess like, but yeah, I just, yeah, I think everyone's culture is beautiful and our ancestry. And I think, I guess I wanted to link that. That's my culture and everyone has their own beautiful culture that we've forgotten. And I guess that's why I also wanted to create that space and, um, And I love, thank you, Gavin Blake from the CCP for the beautiful curtains. Like, I really wanted that feeling, that tactile immersiveness. It
SPEAKER_01:could have, if you tripled the amount of cushions.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no one would get up.
SPEAKER_01:We would have, like, you'd never, like, Paddy would have a gallery with people just sleeping around, like, enjoying it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I'm very grateful Paddy provided the beautiful carpet too. So that was really nice. And, yeah, it just felt very wholesome, like, the whole thing. Sala experience. The Sala team were amazing. You guys were great. Sala
SPEAKER_01:team?
SPEAKER_00:They're so little. I know
SPEAKER_01:like three of them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and they do so much. I'm like, what? How are you putting on a multiple event?
SPEAKER_01:10,400 artists this year or something.
SPEAKER_00:Did I hear at the awards that they have more artists than the Fringe?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. More artists showing work than at the Fringe. Managed by, what, three people?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:like... And no one's getting rich out of it, but it's just people, it's, I think it's a really, yeah, I think it's a really healthy, lovely thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you also have won some awards.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You are like, you've got a show coming up next year. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what's happening.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I feel very like privileged and lucky that last year I did the Adelaide Film Festival and Samstag Expand Lab, which is, I guess you had to apply, and they selected 30 artists from around Australia. It was held in Adelaide, and you have to pitch a moving image-based project with people you've never often met before.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00:It was almost like The Hunger Games or Married at First Sight. Like, I'm joking, a bit. A bit. And then you're like, hey, let's come up with a fresh idea and pitch. So my team and I– like, it's not mine, but we're a team, like Anna-Linda and Nisa East– Yeah, we did the winning pitch. We got$100,000, which.
UNKNOWN:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you would be like. I
SPEAKER_01:mean, it's not sitting in your account. No,
SPEAKER_00:no.
SPEAKER_01:Soft to Bali.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I wish. No, but yeah, it's funny because film and moving image is such an expensive. Oh, I know that
SPEAKER_01:money would go on a
SPEAKER_00:snag. Oh, yeah. Like we're, I think, only earning four bucks an hour or something. But yeah, I'm joking. Sounds like an
SPEAKER_01:artist.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So we've applied for more funding, but just, yeah, it's such a. amazing opportunity one to do the lab which is happening again this year i'm so excited to see who they select for that and two to work with samstag and
SPEAKER_01:samstag's an amazing organization
SPEAKER_00:they're so progressive i mean like they just have the best curation like i love it um so i feel so honored that i've never properly had my work at a museum that is like a commission piece so That'll be exciting. And I get to act in it and it's a very collaborative, like we're all going to be sort of writing and directing together and taking that lab field, lab feel into the project. So that'll be October 2025 next year as part of the Adelaide Film Festival.
SPEAKER_01:So you're producing something for the film festival that we're going to see October 25 next year?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. At the Samstag Museum. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:wow.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, it'll be like a multi-channel video installation and.
SPEAKER_01:What's the core of it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Inside baseball stuff. What's the…
SPEAKER_00:I guess it's a response to similar themes to my show, like hyper-individualism, neoliberal capitalism, but, like, I guess through a masculine lens, the opposite of my show because it's more about men, like how they have to be…
SPEAKER_01:Don't you think there's enough stuff about men?
SPEAKER_00:I know, but it affects us all. So that's why… I'm just being jokey. Yeah, I know. What was I going to say? Yeah, me and Anna will be acting… as men in the performance. Have you got your
SPEAKER_01:men voice ready?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. No, no, no. It should be. Hello. No, no, no. That's not how men talk. I don't know where that Kermit the Froggy voice came from. But, yeah, like we want to have satire and absurdity to sort of reflect, you know, the Andrew Tate's who are kind of like. Perfect. Yeah, people who are just kind of fucking shit up for like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nick Fuentes. Yeah, yeah. Take a peek.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and also like all of us in the group have almost been groomed to be in certain cults or wellness industry stuff that is quite dangerous. So we kind of want to reflect that some of these people promise you like redemption or healing or it's all like this never-ending cycle of perfectionism, like get more buffed, date a 10 out of 10 hottie woman and get a house like it's always like these really superficial stuff so we just want to yeah we're showing like i guess someone doing a ted talk at the end of the world
SPEAKER_01:oh that's so cool yeah oh i can't wait
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah it'll be so fun and we have yet just yeah very excited and honored that aff like adelaide film festival and samstag chose us
SPEAKER_01:that's great because when we when we gave you the award last year and August last year or whatever it was. And then you won all this other stuff afterwards. It's like, well, we've kind of hit the jackpot. We've got someone here who at this point in time is of great interest and you were finalist of the Dunstan Award at Zala. And, you know, like there was so much happening. There is so much happening. You must feel like, you know, like you've really got to a certain point in your career and it's really huge.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And ironically, I think, you know, you guys had a lot to do with that because, Like being disabled and chronically ill, I lost a lot of self-esteem because, you know, when I did honours, like I was like, oh, she's going to be the next hot video artist, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, I was winning awards back then. And then I was like, why am I so sick? And why can't I get out of bed? And then it was like, you know, 10, 15 years of you know, being gaslit by people or just feeling, you know, being very broke and trying to find answers. So these wins, like, not just are great for my career, but psychologically I was like, oh, I do want to tell these stories and I need support because I couldn't put on a show like this without you guys giving me, like, I've never had printing like the printing you've done. Like, I've never seen an epic scale print and having the love and care you guys have have done in this show, like for me.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the intention was always a step up for people. Yeah. Like with the art, being in my theory and Paddy's and Gab, we all share it, like you say yes to things. Yeah. And every yes… to an exhibition, to participation in an exhibition, collaboration is a step on the ladder.
SPEAKER_00:Totally.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and sometimes you can find some steps are bigger than others and they take you. And we just want to be a part of that step. And people do whatever they want. Like people make great things, they don't make great things, whatever they do. And that's cool. It's all good. And I think the best part about art is this idea of just throwing it out and seeing who responds and how they respond. And you hit a topic that I think was very, is very relevant you know, prescient. Everyone needs to understand this language that is social media and imagery. And I think that, yeah, it was a great choice. Everyone, we congratulated ourselves. We sat around patting ourselves on the back, you know, going to some extent, we want to do something a little bit more interesting. But it's a lot of work for the three of us and for the artists, four of us. It's like you're putting a whole new show on. It's not just like, oh, you've done a great show. Here's five grand.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, have a nice life.
SPEAKER_01:And that's a lot of the awards are like that. And then we wouldn't have had the relationship that we've built. And Paddy gets to know you and know us. Like I bumped into Paddy judging up at a bar and we had a drink together. And it was like, oh, so, you know, there's more to Sala than, it's about community and all that sort of stuff. And I can see that in your work and, and with your, you know, with what you're intending to do with that work. So it's all super exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And like support the arts people, like, yeah, whether that's like, I don't know, coming to shows, buying works, or even like being on boards or giving money to charities that are art driven, like it, it makes such an impact. And as we learned from COVID when it first hit, like we were, The people who are keeping society going were the nurses, the doctors, the creative people, like because we needed entertainment, we needed beauty in a world or... And, yeah, it just
SPEAKER_01:– I mean, you forget that Netflix is put together by a bunch of artists. Like, the shows that make Netflix work, the company itself, you know, its own monstrosity, but there are artists that are putting these shows to air, showrunners, the writers and all that kind of stuff. It's just art. It's just– it may be a little bit more accessible because it's on your TV at home or on your phone, but it's still art.
SPEAKER_00:Definitely. And it's like the skill of multiple people who are working at least 50– 60 hours a week to do it on impossible timelines who are probably not seeing their family for like six months properly like yeah like when you see media or arts you don't know how much sacrifice people do to put on a good show or an event or whatever like
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah it's a tough gig it really is a tough gig you really want to be a part of that don't you to put up with people
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and sometimes I'm like, wow, do I like being in an abusive situation? As in sometimes you get knocked down in the industry and then you get back up and you have lulls. It's not always like, oh, wow, she's an overnight success. I've had lots of knockbacks. Yeah, I feel very lucky, though, that lately the work I've been doing, because I've committed to stuff since that near-death experience where I'm like, no, I don't. Time is passing by and I want to make work that speaks to audiences, like maybe through my own personal lens of like, oh, Yasmin's show about disability, but it's about... disability as a whole, but I'm using me as, I guess, the sugar for the medicine to get the message across.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the comedy and the lightness that you come at it with, and yet the heaviness of the topics is always there.
SPEAKER_00:Totally.
SPEAKER_01:But you don't, I never felt, because we've talked about this a lot, I've never felt burdened by the things you talk about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I try to, I guess, create work that has levels to it and you can access it as deeply as you want like there are like visual signifiers or little hints little terms I use that the people who know it will be like oh yeah
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_00:but like it's never like plonk over the head like pay attention or you should think this way like I I don't like to dictate yeah what is truth trademark to
SPEAKER_01:people yeah yeah truth trademark
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's great. Well, thank you so much. This has been such a wonderful chat. I, I will like, we'll put all the links and for people to follow all the bits and bobs, we're going to watch out for that Sam Stagg show with like, like, I'm really excited about 2025. Have you started production on it?
SPEAKER_00:We've had lots of meetings and I think like, it's so funny. My teammates are so busy. Busy, busy, busy. One went on tour with Pink around Australia filming her and New Zealand and America. So now that she's back, we can
SPEAKER_03:start
SPEAKER_00:doing stuff. And Anna's in a state theatre show right now, so it's sort of like, yeah, I'm excited for us all to meet very soon. Oh, cool. And Nisa lives interstate, so it's, yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So that's next. Well, that's exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, good luck and thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_00:My pleasure. Thanks for having
SPEAKER_01:me. Pleasure.